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PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

Last post 09-09-2008, 7:24 AM by Americangirl01. 16 replies.
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  •  09-07-2008, 9:20 PM 95410

    PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

     THEY WANT OUR HELP OR THEY DON'T   I SAY TIME TO COME HOME
    BEEN THEIR TO LONG AS IS.
     
     
    US re-examines Afghan civilian deaths from attack

    By JASON STRAZIUSO, Associated Press Writer2 hours, 48 minutes ago

    The U.S. military said Sunday it has new evidence about civilian casualties from an American attack that Afghanistan says killed scores of women and children and it is sending a senior officer to the country to review its initial finding that no more than seven civilians died.

    The military did not say what new information had emerged. But Afghan and Western officials say Afghanistan's intelligence agency and the U.N. both have video of the aftermath of the Aug. 22 airstrikes on Azizabad village showing dozens of dead women and children.

    "In light of emerging evidence pertaining to civilian casualties in the August 22 counter-insurgency operation in the Shindand District, Herat province, I feel it is prudent to request that U.S. Central Command send a general officer to review the U.S. investigation and its findings with respect to this new evidence," Gen. David McKiernan — the senior U.S. officer in Afghanistan and the commander of the 40-nation NATO-led mission — said in a statement.

    "The people of Afghanistan have our commitment to get to the truth," he added.

    The attack has further strained relations between Afghanistan's U.S.-backed President Hamid Karzai and the foreign forces operating against the Taliban and al-Qaida in the country.

    An Afghan government commission has said 90 civilians, including 60 children and 15 women, died in the bombings, a finding that the U.N. backed in its own initial report.

    But an initial U.S. investigation released Tuesday said only up to seven civilians and 35 militants were killed in the operation in the western province of Herat.

    A U.N. official who has seen one video of Azizabad told The Associated Press it shows maimed children. The official became highly emotional describing rows of bodies.

    A second Western official has said one video shows bodies of "tens of children" lined up and he called the video "gruesome." The two officials spoke on condition they not be identified because the videos had not been publicly released.

    Although the U.S. said Tuesday its investigation of the attack was complete, the military at that time appeared to leave open the possibility that photographs or video from the scene could emerge. American officials said privately last week that they were aware photographic evidence apparently existed, but that they did not have access to it.

    "No other evidence that may have been collected by other organizations was provided to the U.S. investigating officer and therefore could not be considered in the findings," the initial U.S. report said.

    On Saturday, a statement attributed to McKiernan on Azizabad said: "We realize there is a large discrepancy between the number of civilians casualties reported" and McKiernan would continue to "try to account for this disparity."

    The New York Times reported on its Web site Sunday that one of its reporters had seen cell phone video in Azizabad of at least 11 dead children among some 30 to 40 bodies laid out in the village mosque. The Times also said Azizabad had 42 freshly dug graves, including 13 so small they could hold only children.

    Karzai has for years warned the U.S. and NATO that it must stop killing civilians in its bombing runs, saying such deaths undermine his government and the international mission. But the Azizabad incident could finally push Karzai to take action.

    Shortly after the Azizabad attack, he ordered a review of whether the U.S. and NATO should be allowed to use airstrikes or carry out raids in villages. He also called for an updated "status of force" agreement between the Afghan government and foreign militaries. That review has not yet been completed.

    Nek Mohammad Ishaq, a provincial council member in Herat and a member of the Afghan investigating commission, has said photographs and video taken of the victims are with Afghanistan's secretive intelligence service.

    Ahmad Nader Nadery, spokesman for Afghanistan's Independent Human Rights Commission, has said a villager named Reza, whose compound bore the brunt of the attack, had a private security company that worked for the U.S. military at nearby Shindand airport.

    Villagers and officials have said the operation was based on faulty information provided by a rival of Reza. Aziz Ahmad Nadem, a member of parliament from Herat, has told the AP that the rival is now being protected by the U.S. military.

    Afghan officials say U.S. special forces and Afghan commandos raided the village while hundreds of people were gathered in a large compound for a memorial service honoring a tribal leader, Timor Shah, who was killed eight months ago by a rival, Nader Tawakal. Reza, who was killed in the Aug. 22 operation, is Shah's brother.

    The U.S. investigative report released Tuesday said American and Afghan forces took fire from militants while approaching Azizabad and that "justified use of well-aimed small-arms fire and close air support to defend the combined force."

    The report said investigators discovered evidence that the militants planned to attack a nearby coalition base. Evidence collected included weapons, explosives, intelligence materials and an access badge to the base, as well as photographs from inside and outside the base.

    ___

    Associated Press reporter Fisnik Abrashi contributed to this report.


    "Just say "Lay A Way"

    "WWJBD" What Would James Bond Do?

    "Hokey religions and plastic glocks are no match for a good 1911 at your side, kid."





  •  09-07-2008, 10:11 PM 95431 in reply to 95410

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    What makes no sense to me is how they can use their women for suicide bombers, and train their children to be soldiers, but then complain if they become casualties of war??? I don't get that?
    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." Albert Einstein
  •  09-07-2008, 11:25 PM 95442 in reply to 95431

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    what makes no sence to me is, what is the incentive for the women and children homicide bombers?  If  the "men" get 70 virgins what do the women and children get? 
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  •  09-08-2008, 10:04 AM 95514 in reply to 95442

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    Nothing!  Can't get into heaven or whatever the muslims call it.  So.......... are the virgins women?
    I'll keep my guns, freedom and money. You keep the *change*.
  •  09-08-2008, 10:06 AM 95515 in reply to 95514

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    World is overpopulated anyhow, we need a good war or two or three plus a good plague or two.  As we get more over-populated, there will be more wars.  Leaders in have not countries, have always picked wars to get the populations minds off of starvation and insurrection, just the way things are.  We have lots of wars in front of us, and one to the South of us, put up that fence and do it now.
  •  09-08-2008, 10:19 AM 95519 in reply to 95515

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    We are there for our sake. Not "to help them". When your enemy doesn't wear uniform, hides in civilian homes and occasionally use women and children this kind of stuff is going to happen. On the other hand this should not become a license to kill. Need to learn the facts and figure out how to do better next time. No one should be reprimanded though.
    NO, YOU CAN'T TAKE AWAY MY RIGHTS. I AM STILL USING THEM!

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  •  09-08-2008, 4:04 PM 95592 in reply to 95519

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    Now it seems that this was a media spin of some type, they have this filmed and no children died a couple of civilians yes, kids no.


    The past is just the future that hasn't happened yet and the future becomes the past as soon as that happens........
  •  09-08-2008, 5:05 PM 95605 in reply to 95592

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    "People Die In War Get Over It."

    Can we get over the 4 thousand and counting the U.S has lost?  I think it's nearing 5,000. What about the thousands that have been maimed? How about them? It ain't all that clear cut is it? Especially when it come to our own. Then it's not that easy to 'Get Over It'.

    But as long as it's 'them' getting killed, that's OK. Just as long as you remember to have that magnetic ribbon on your car you're OK with me.




    Thanks,
    AlleyOop
  •  09-08-2008, 5:22 PM 95610 in reply to 95605

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    alioop:
    "People Die In War Get Over It."
    Can we get over the 4 thousand and counting we've lost?  What about the thousands that have be maimed? How about them? It ain't all that clear cut is it? Especially when it come to our own. Then it's not that easy to 'Get Over It'.


    It's perspective. Every single soldier that is lost has an effect, on their family, their community and the country. 4000 and counting in 6 years is bad, 300,000 in 5 years is much more significant yet few people question the validity of WWII. Why?

    You trying to screen for communists? Don't worry, we're all cool. - Dale
  •  09-08-2008, 5:31 PM 95611 in reply to 95610

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    Comparing WWII with this mess we're currently in is ridiculous! WWII was an honorable war. You can't say the same about this fiasco.  

    Thanks,
    AlleyOop
  •  09-08-2008, 5:39 PM 95615 in reply to 95611

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    By the way, just to allay any doubts anyone might have, my signon should have been 'AlleyOop'. It comes from an old, old, old comic strip now long gone. I just missspelled it and decided to kept it.

    So, no, I'm not one of 'them'.

    Thanks,
    AlleyOop
  •  09-08-2008, 7:13 PM 95634 in reply to 95611

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    alioop:
    Comparing WWII with this mess we're currently in is ridiculous! WWII was an honorable war. You can't say the same about this fiasco.  


    Why? What were we in WWII for? Why are we in Iraq and Afghanistan? Hmm, liberating oppressed people and fostering democracy?
    Going after oil? You mean like in Ploesti Romania?
    Saying that todays soldiers died with any less honor is reprehensible.

    ******************edited**********************

    If I said whats really on my mind I'd get banned, so use your imagination.



    You trying to screen for communists? Don't worry, we're all cool. - Dale
  •  09-08-2008, 7:50 PM 95649 in reply to 95634

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    Folks seem to forget an anniversery date coming up shortly.  I don't have a son in either of the two current theatres, I had one in Kosovo for six months and didn't like it, was very proud he made it home in one peice; I didn't feel we had to be over there, but in hind sight, a lot of folks are better off for it, my son included.  Some day, we may feel the same way about Iraq, and we may even realize there was a greater need to have gone there than we ever realized.  Afghanistan was a no brainer, if you don't understand going there, I won't even try to explain it to you, but I can definitely think of about 3,000 reasons. 
  •  09-08-2008, 7:52 PM 95650 in reply to 95634

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    +1
    Bersa, Thunder 380+, his
    Bersa, Thunder 380+, hers
    Bersa, Thunder 45 UC
    Walther P22
  •  09-08-2008, 8:07 PM 95653 in reply to 95605

    Re: PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT

    alioop:
    "People Die In War Get Over It."

    Can we get over the 4 thousand and counting the U.S has lost?  I think it's nearing 5,000. What about the thousands that have been maimed? How about them? It ain't all that clear cut is it? Especially when it come to our own. Then it's not that easy to 'Get Over It'.

    But as long as it's 'them' getting killed, that's OK. Just as long as you remember to have that magnetic ribbon on your car you're OK with me.



       First of this board has many disabled vets on it. My self included .  We are aware of our losses .  I am talking about  the enemy not American troops . Yes ,as long as its them  thats OK That what were suppose to do kill them.. But in war we also loose people . I never said a thing about our losses not subject of story.

        By way  Which war did our serve in ?  Been several since WWII ended .You  must have been in one . My son was 101st Airborne Infantury in this latest mess . Crossed in invasion and fought all way to Bagdad .  My self I spent a couple years of my 13 years in Asia  .  Once more which one was your war.  

     

     I have said many times. Time to leave and come home. They either stand or fall on their own. .  We are  their to help but kill a civilian and they scream bloody murder . Well lets see civilian mixes with enemy. Fire on American troops. You can expect S##t  storm from sky either arty or fast movers . neither one can tell difference of whats on ground.  In WWII we leveled cities, fire bombed cities, and dropped Atomic bombs on cities.  Never worried about who was on other end was simple ememy. Now we have troops standing in a US civ. court charged with killing civ. after they have left military. NO WAY IS THIS RIGHT. Militarty Court maybe but keep dam civilians out of it.

     No more of my children will serve in military . Do the job you sent their to do and then get screwed by your own govt or the one your helping .  Yes we have lost nearly 5000 and they  have died for what .

     Any body know what cave  that rag head is hiding in.  Kill him and lets go home . Remember that why we went their in first place . Not to set up a new puppet govt. and support it.  Lets see other war was for WMD . But like first We set up a puppet govt . and America is paying for it all in money and lives  Thes people will never understand nor have a govt. any thing close to what we have. They understand POWER and Control.  Not freedom and voteing .  Sadum keep his country running and under control  We have made a mess , Costing us billions and do we even get a  free barrel of oil from these people we are helping .

     So how do we end this mess . .

     


    "Just say "Lay A Way"

    "WWJBD" What Would James Bond Do?

    "Hokey religions and plastic glocks are no match for a good 1911 at your side, kid."





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